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Post by robg on Oct 12, 2016 18:59:26 GMT -5
i am thinking about buying either an 2000 watt inverter or a 2000 watt generator inverter (one of those quiet Honda ones or similar) or my boat. If i buy an inverter i will be hooking it up to two house batteries set in parallel. What is your opinion?
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Post by peter on Oct 13, 2016 7:12:58 GMT -5
If you are new to the generator market, it can be pretty confusing to understand the incredible number of differences between generators. In this segment, we’ll explain the differences between portable generators, and give you the main advantages of each.
Generators
Conventional Generators
Conventional generators are the most widely used today, also because they have been around the longest. How they work has remained essentially unchanged. They run on diesel, gasoline or (our choice) propane/lpg, which in simple terms, powers a motor attached to an alternator that produces electricity. The generator’s motor runs at a constant speed (usually 3600 rpm) to produce the required electrical current (in the U.S., typically 120 Volts AC / 60 Hertz, and in most other countries, 240 volts AC / 60 Hz). The engine’s rpm should not fluctuate, otherwise it will alter the frequency (Hertz) of electrical output.
Silenced Generators As the name suggests, silenced generators have been fully enclosed in a robust sound proof enclosure, technically referred to as an acoustic cabinet. The noise level is less than a framed conventional generator, but higher than an inverter generator.
Inverter Generators
Inverter generators are a recent technology, made possible by advanced electronic circuitry and state-of-the-art magnets. The technology generally outputs AC current like most conventional generators, but the current is then converted to DC voltage, and then “inverted” back to clean AC voltage, thus how it gets its name. The advantage to this inversion, is that it maintains a constant flow of current to your appliance. So, how to choose what’s right for you? It depends on a number of factors, including what applications you have in mind and your budget. Let’s take a look at a number of important considerations and how each type of generator fits the bill.
Size / Weight / Portability
Many of the new inverter generators are small, and lightweight. They are easy to transport and stow away, fitting easily in your car, boat or RV. Conventional generators are heavy and bulky, often requiring a substantial metal frame and wheels. Technically, they are portable, in that they can be moved, but they do lack the convenience factor of the smaller, lighter inverters. Due to the acoustic cabinet which encloses it, the silenced generator will most likely be the bulkiest to handle between the three.
Fuel Efficiency / Run Time
The run time depends largely on the fuel tank size. Any size fuel tank can be attached to generators, regardless whether conventional, silenced or inverter technologies.
However, inverter’s are more fuel-efficient and also due to the engine speed which adjusts according to the power load needed. Conventional generators instead normally run at an even 3600 rpm, regardless of the power load. Fuel savings can be significant. Noise
Noise is one that truly separates the two categories of generators. Inverter generators are designed to be comparatively quiet. Quieter engines, special mufflers, and sound-dampening technology are used to reduce noise to amazingly low levels. As stated above, conventional models run at a constant speed (typically 3600 rpm) in order to produce a stable flow of electricity. Inverters, on the other hand, adjust the electrical characteristics of the power produced using microprocessors and special electronics. This means that the engine can throttle back when the load is light, saving fuel and substantially reducing noise. To give an idea, an inverter generator running low, could be the equivalent of people conversing. Instead, many conventional generators can have the same noise range (decibels) as a chain saw. A silenced generator has the same engine as a conventional generator, running at a constant 3600 rpm, but is much quieter due to the acoustic cabinet which significantly dampens the sound.
Max Power Output
Conventional and silenced generators come in just about any size you want, from 500 watts up to 50,000 watts and higher. Inverter generators focus on convenience, quiet operation and portability, but this means that their maximum output possibilities are more limited – they are mainly available in 1000 to 4000 watt models.
Quality of Power Produced
A conventional or silenced generator is essentially an engine connected to an alternator and run at a speed that produces the desired AC frequency, regardless of the load on it (as the load increases the engine throttles up to keep the engine speed the same). The output of the alternator is connected directly to the load, without any processing. As we talk about the inverter technology in the next paragraph, it becomes clear why quality of power becomes a key point for many when they choose a generator model.
With an inverter generator, the engine is connected to an efficient alternator, which produces AC electricity, just like a conventional generator. But then a rectifier is used to convert the AC power to DC and capacitors are used to smooth it out to a certain degree. The DC power is then “inverted” back into clean AC power at the desired frequency and voltage. The system produces consistent and reliable power independent of the engine speed. The result is much “cleaner” power than is possible with a conventional generator, essentially the same quality of electricity that you typically get from your electric company.
Why is this important? Well, more and more products today use some form of microprocessor. Not just your computer, but also your phones, TVs, game consoles, printers, DVD players, and even kitchen appliances and power tools. And all these microprocessors are very sensitive to the quality of the electricity they use. Using power that isn’t “clean” can make these devices malfunction, or even damage them. Any application that uses sensitive electronics – and that includes a lot more things than you might think – will likely benefit substantially from the cleaner power provided by an inverter generator.
Price
It seems that their are few advantages to a conventional generator except when you need a very high power output. The second main advantage to conventional is price. It’s simple functional design make it not only cheaper but less costly to repair. The silenced generator is of course higher priced due to the additional acoustic cabinet. The inverter has a number of significant benefits: convenience, much quieter operation, fuel-efficiency, design, controlled power output. All this comes at a price, but only you can evaluate how important each factor weighs in your decision and how much you have budgeted for the purchase.
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Post by woodenboat on Oct 13, 2016 8:39:45 GMT -5
personaly I would avoid the generator if at all possible. instead consider more battery storage that you can charge when at the dock or install a high output alternater on your boat engine. if you go with a portable generator beware of fuel spills and exhaust gass. niether one is good for saftey onboard a small space like a boat. and by the way the noise from even the quietest generator will drive you insane. but I guess thats part of being a fisherman.
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Post by manvillen on Oct 13, 2016 19:19:29 GMT -5
Robg, what is your end goal? Are planning on running high amperage tools? I have years of designing high efficiency 12v circuits. If your need to sustain high amperage over many hours, it many not be worth the weight of a battery bank. Inverters are inefficient in my opinion. The 2000watts is generally a "peak" amount of power the the inverter can put out. From my experience 1 battery can put out a max of 3600watts continuesly, and not for very long...
Peter post if very thorough and covers the topic like a champ. Pm me if you need any rough numbers crunched.
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Post by robg on Oct 14, 2016 18:58:40 GMT -5
Robg, what is your end goal? Are planning on running high amperage tools? I have years of designing high efficiency 12v circuits. If your need to sustain high amperage over many hours, it many not be worth the weight of a battery bank. Inverters are inefficient in my opinion. The 2000watts is generally a "peak" amount of power the the inverter can put out. From my experience 1 battery can put out a max of 3600watts continuesly, and not for very long... Peter post if very thorough and covers the topic like a champ. Pm me if you need any rough numbers crunched. i am planning on using it when on longer trips with the boat and shore power is not available. i will be running a small microwave and lighting. I do plan on running two house batteries in parallel, but am worried that on longer trips i will need to run the engine to recharge the batteries during the night. The microwave will not run on the house batteries and therefore will need an generator or inverter in order to run. Realistically the generator would only be running during the evenings, and not while we are sleeping. a quiet generator inverter would probably not be too noisy.
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Post by manvillen on Oct 14, 2016 20:27:56 GMT -5
Robg, If I were in your shoes, I would do my job to limit my power consumption. For 35-50$ you can get some excessively bright 1w l.e.d. Bulbs (2 in a pack), roughly comparable to 80w incandescent. Microwaves takes a enormous amounts of power. 3-4 min of use every few hours on a 2000w microwave wouldn't take to much out of your battery. If your microwave is any higher in wattage, you can begin to run into issues with drawing to many amps and your batteries will need a constant trickle. Solar panel, running the motor to charge bats.. etc
My personal approach, over the side rail mount bbq. 2or3 1lbs of propane tanks is easy to store and they floats.
Love to hear about your final design, and what you choose to go with.
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Post by seangilmour on Oct 15, 2016 8:54:12 GMT -5
I have a honda 2000 and love this generator, light, fuel efficient and quiet. They have a 7amp 12v outlet so you could top your batteries when you run it and wouldn't need to run the boat
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Post by robg on Nov 6, 2016 21:06:15 GMT -5
Well, after doing much research and pricing i came to the conclusion that a generator inverter won't be cost efficient. The price of the generator to start with is quite high, for the amount of times i would actually be using it. i have therefore decided to go with a 2000 W power inverter. Now i need to figure out how to wire it into my system so that i can have 120V power while off shore. Will be using it to run a small (650 W ) microwave and perhaps a coffee maker. I would like to wire it into the existing system if at all possible. Any ideas?
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Post by slednut on Nov 8, 2016 9:31:38 GMT -5
Hey Rob, best bet is to connect directly to your battery with some proper cables. The heavier guage the better and no more than 36 inches from the battery. I have a 2000 watt inverter in my shed that I use to power my tools and my lawn mower. You shouldn't have a problem with light duty use as long as your batteries have the capacity. What method are you planning on using to recharge your battery bank?
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Post by robg on Nov 9, 2016 20:59:45 GMT -5
Hey Rob, best bet is to connect directly to your battery with some proper cables. The heavier guage the better and no more than 36 inches from the battery. I have a 2000 watt inverter in my shed that I use to power my tools and my lawn mower. You shouldn't have a problem with light duty use as long as your batteries have the capacity. What method are you planning on using to recharge your battery bank? The boat has a battery charger for when connected to shore power, and the batteries will be recharged when the engine is running as well.
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Post by slednut on Nov 10, 2016 9:15:05 GMT -5
First thing is that you will need to be able to isolate your deep cycle batteries from your starting battery. You might want to consider not connecting them to the boats alternator at all as charging different types of batteries on the same circuit isn't recommended. Charging off an alternator will require a much larger capacity charging system than most marine systems cant supply. Solar charging is an option you might look at when you are on the water. Connect the inverter with at least 1 guage welding cable directly to the batteries, the larger diameter the better. I buy cable from Princess Auto and fabricate the lug ends myself. There is a wealth of information on YouTube to show you how.
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Post by robg on Nov 10, 2016 13:19:06 GMT -5
First thing is that you will need to be able to isolate your deep cycle batteries from your starting battery. You might want to consider not connecting them to the boats alternator at all as charging different types of batteries on the same circuit isn't recommended. Charging off an alternator will require a much larger capacity charging system than most marine systems cant supply. Solar charging is an option you might look at when you are on the water. Connect the inverter with at least 1 guage welding cable directly to the batteries, the larger diameter the better. I buy cable from Princess Auto and fabricate the lug ends myself. There is a wealth of information on YouTube to show you how. The starter and house batteries are isolated form each other via a three way switch.
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Post by robg on Dec 6, 2016 21:49:37 GMT -5
Well after much back and forth, I picked up a Generator inverter on Kijiji for $200.00 Brand new out of the box . The guy bought it 2 months ago and never used it. It's not aHonda, but will serve my purposes. it has a neutral ground, not a floating ground so no worries about reverse polarity when i plug it into my main power panel on the boat. Thanks for all your input. Cheers.
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